Where do we go?

Re: Where do we go?

Postby Colin Wright » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:19 pm

Well, I'm still thinking in terms of 'fixing' TOAW. Even if we did have to build from the ground up, I'd want to use TOAW as a template -- to whatever extent that would be legally possible.
Ilhan Omar speaks for me
User avatar
Colin Wright
 
Posts: 11057
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:36 pm

Re: Where do we go?

Postby Steve Sill » Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:30 pm

I guess it's worth asking if anyone has any opinion of or experience with something called Unity. Apparently it is software that assists in designing games. If I understand it correctly, over on the Matrix site they have a new game in development [called Warplan] that used Unity.
User avatar
Steve Sill
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:14 am
Location: Maryland, USA

Re: Where do we go?

Postby zovs » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:24 pm

My thoughts are I do like TOAW it just needs some tweaking.

I do know java, C, C++ and JavaScript, I have several times put inquiries into Matrix and asked if they need help, but not sure what the constraints are. I can't give up my day job and program for free, but I also can't invest hours off the clock from family.

It would just be nice if I could get paid what I am currently getting paid each year and code war games, but I have never seen that dream materialize.

If we had the code to TOAW III or IV then I know I could look through it and decipher it, and then be able to tell how "buggy" it may be. But working from existing code is a lot easier (at times) then designing and coding something up from scratch especially a war game. A web site is easy enough to start from scratch but not necessary a war game. I have see Karl and Gary's code and there is a lot of interface stuff that was built sometimes a few years before the game code was laid down.

From a programmer's perspective there have only been two programmers that could do a vast majority of the work themselves. Gary and Norm. But they in the end pulled together a larger team to get it out the door.

For me, I'd rather just have a Project Manager filter out all the crazy stuff from all the nut jobs that want this and that and have him say here is the list of priorities, what is the complexity? Once that was done then I'd tackle as chunk (a story if you will) at a time, and or hit the low hanging fruit.

Those are just some of my thoughts.
zovs
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 7:44 pm

Re: Where do we go?

Postby Ben Turner » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:40 am

zovs wrote:My thoughts are I do like TOAW it just needs some tweaking.

I do know java, C, C++ and JavaScript, I have several times put inquiries into Matrix and asked if they need help, but not sure what the constraints are. I can't give up my day job and program for free, but I also can't invest hours off the clock from family.

It would just be nice if I could get paid what I am currently getting paid each year and code war games, but I have never seen that dream materialize.

If we had the code to TOAW III or IV then I know I could look through it and decipher it, and then be able to tell how "buggy" it may be. But working from existing code is a lot easier (at times) then designing and coding something up from scratch especially a war game. A web site is easy enough to start from scratch but not necessary a war game. I have see Karl and Gary's code and there is a lot of interface stuff that was built sometimes a few years before the game code was laid down.

From a programmer's perspective there have only been two programmers that could do a vast majority of the work themselves. Gary and Norm. But they in the end pulled together a larger team to get it out the door.

For me, I'd rather just have a Project Manager filter out all the crazy stuff from all the nut jobs that want this and that and have him say here is the list of priorities, what is the complexity? Once that was done then I'd tackle as chunk (a story if you will) at a time, and or hit the low hanging fruit.

Those are just some of my thoughts.


Well based on the discussions I've seen the structure would be;
- a few of us batting around ideas and working out the mathematical approach to various problems (I'm happy to turn vague ideas into pseudo-code)
- Colin being the arbiter of what does or does not get built
- a Programmer who probably is not going to make commercial rates but will get paid

I once did some consultancy for another TOAW designer who was prepared to pay me. It worked out at the worst paid job per hour I have ever had, but since it was TOAW work I would almost have done for free I was OK with that.
User avatar
Ben Turner
 
Posts: 3255
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:59 pm

Re: Where do we go?

Postby Colin Wright » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:30 pm

Ben Turner wrote:Well based on the discussions I've seen the structure would be;
- a few of us batting around ideas and working out the mathematical approach to various problems (I'm happy to turn vague ideas into pseudo-code)
- Colin being the arbiter of what does or does not get built
- a Programmer who probably is not going to make commercial rates but will get paid

I once did some consultancy for another TOAW designer who was prepared to pay me. It worked out at the worst paid job per hour I have ever had, but since it was TOAW work I would almost have done for free I was OK with that.


Finally, a sensible arrangement: I decide.

Otherwise, though, I'd say we need to resolve what we're faced with: are we going to be modifying existing code or building our own game from the ground up?

Here, I've got two points.

First, all I really want is a 700x700 hex map using the old graphics; one look at Orient will make my motives here clear. Naturally, dealing with various other issues would be great; but that's not immediately essential. Also, I wouldn't want to be stuck with whatever damnfoolery Bob Cross has introduced since the last time I looked; i.e., he can keep his naval model.

Second, I don't actually feel the need to make money off of this, or even to necessarily recover my expenses. I'm entirely willing to let whoever owns the rights to TOAW to have the rights to our work if we can just be allowed to do it.
Ilhan Omar speaks for me
User avatar
Colin Wright
 
Posts: 11057
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:36 pm

Re: Where do we go?

Postby Steve Sill » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:44 am

IV has the 700 x 700 map plus the original bmp's can be used if you want use them. Allowing the original terrain graphics in IV was a twelfth hour decision that not even the beta team was aware of. I had actually already converted all of the original bmp's to png's so that when IV went public we wouldn't have the issue that the current 'project manager' was clueless about. So I don't know why they changed their minds, but at least they did that.

I think that IV is a step better than III, but overall it still has it's issues. It was released too soon. It needs to be finished, but my opinion is that the current 'development team' can't do it. I've said it before but here it is again, Ralph doesn't have the time, Bob does not have the proper vision, and Matrix doesn't want to get involved. Maybe there is change in the future, who knows. The track record would indicate not.
User avatar
Steve Sill
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:14 am
Location: Maryland, USA

Re: Where do we go?

Postby Ben Turner » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:27 am

Steve Sill wrote:I think that IV is a step better than III,


I'm not sure it is. See the current Fall Grau AAR on the main forum.
User avatar
Ben Turner
 
Posts: 3255
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:59 pm

Re: Where do we go?

Postby Steve Sill » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:12 pm

I skimmed thru the last two pages of the Fall Grau thread and didn't see anything related to TOAW IV. Could you be more specific or point me to a post?
User avatar
Steve Sill
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:14 am
Location: Maryland, USA

Re: Where do we go?

Postby Colin Wright » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:43 pm

Steve Sill wrote:IV has the 700 x 700 map plus the original bmp's can be used if you want use them. Allowing the original terrain graphics in IV was a twelfth hour decision that not even the beta team was aware of. I had actually already converted all of the original bmp's to png's so that when IV went public we wouldn't have the issue that the current 'project manager' was clueless about. So I don't know why they changed their minds, but at least they did that.


Does this include the original unit colors file? That would be critical to my needs.

... I've said it before but here it is again, Ralph doesn't have the time, Bob does not have the proper vision, and Matrix doesn't want to get involved. Maybe there is change in the future, who knows. The track record would indicate not.


So they're playing dog in the manger. It's exasperating. I don't see why they can't let us play with it. After all, at least I'm perfectly willing to leave them with the general commercial rights -- and this isn't the secret to cold fusion. We're not going to do them out of anything on the sly. There just isn't enough money in it.
Ilhan Omar speaks for me
User avatar
Colin Wright
 
Posts: 11057
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:36 pm

Re: Where do we go?

Postby Steve Sill » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:15 pm

By the original unit colors I guess you mean the original 108 counter sheets that we could modify as desired? No to that. Ralph admitted it was a mistake but for some reason no resolution to the issue has yet been provided. Bob, of course, sees this as not an issue at all.

Now this created a huge issue for the FitE2 scenario, because we worked out a specific Army Color scheme for the Soviets in order to make it much easier to manage this huge monster scenario. In addition to custom colors for all 108 sheets, there were custom made Air Icons for the Air Units [the guys on that project wanted World in Flames style counters for the air units]. All of that work was un-thoughtfully flushed down the toilet by IV. One of the other guys on the FitE2 team took the reins and reworked everything under the new systems and eventually it was all worked out. So whatever issue you have can probably be worked out, but if you are like me then it takes a while to get over the emotion and trauma of being so disrespected enough to actually sit down and spend the time and effort attempting to redo everything the way that Bob wants it done. The horror!

I don't see why they can't let us play with it.
I think the issue here is Ralph. It seems he has no interest in giving up his interest, and Matrix hasn't the leverage to do anything about that. But we are still waiting to see what Matrix really is doing about the whole situation.
User avatar
Steve Sill
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:14 am
Location: Maryland, USA

PreviousNext

Return to Game Design

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron