Blast from the past

Blast from the past

Postby Ben Turner » Wed May 22, 2019 3:38 pm

Tovs on the main forum got me reminiscing and I was able to dig this up from the end of GS2. Things were pretty complicated as I recall;
- France after a brief fight had defected to the Axis
- Spain tried to broker a league of neutrals in the Balkans but the Soviet Union muscled in and broke the whole thing up
- An enlarged Axis was advancing in Egypt and poised to punish Spain when the game ended

Here's the postgame discussion (read in reverse order)

----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Turner
To: J.Augusto Moreira Jr ; Pat ; Matthew Tyler ; Matt Frederiksen ; Tiron Andric ; Jim Butler ; Adam Davis ; Pierre Gendarme ; Erik Johansson ; Chris Long ; John Madison ; Javier Maqua ; Daniel Michelson ; Don Miller ; Pedja ; Casmir Schmidt ; Jeff Wang
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: I'm afraid our little game has come to an end

The trouble is the kind of game you played, J. Augusto, was designed to produce a German defeat rather than a Soviet victory. Had we played GS3 through to its conclusion Germany may well have been defeated- but in the terms I understand it Russia would have lost. She would have gained nothing from the war.

"J.Augusto Moreira Jr" <jaugusto72@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
a bit worried about know finland never trust in Russian friendship like i ever play a anti axis game, primary in balkans, but keeping the Scandinavian countries free for move troops against the german invasion.

Jose Augusto

Pat <pat@socal.rr.com> wrote:
LOL, shouldn't that be the view from Berlin? As I pointed out, the invasion of Spain would only happen if Don refused to come to the table...he would of kept Egypt and Algeria while giving ground elsewhere. We were not prepared, nor in a position, to concede anything to the UK in the Med as we were winning. Peace just saved Axis lives and gave us more time to prepare for the Soviets.

If Pierre insisted on not aiding us in the invasion of Spain, then Italy would not participate in it as well. However, Italy would find a reason to not aid Germany in Russia...assuming Italy was still part of the Axis at this point. Also know that I selfishly put Italy first in my plans and an Axis controlled Spain would mean the Med was an Axis lake and thus Italy was safe from any invasion...except from Yugo. Defending the Atlantic side of NA and Spain would be much easier than all the ports/invasion hexes in the Med ;)

I'm curious as to Don's take on all this is. He was losing ground and men at a rapid pace in and around Egypt...not sure how much longer he could sustain this. His only success was in western Libya...I won't go into THAT one ;)...and he really wasn't able to do much there after that. His forces there had moved forward as I retreated to a more defensible line and his supply line was quite lengthy. He had to see the writing on the wall; unless the US was going to enter or Spain would DoW the Axis forcing us to defend France. Italy was also about to send its level bomber fleet to join the French and begin bombing England to get London to see the light.

An error the Axis made was in not talking Moscow into invading Finland which was ripe for the taking. I'm not sure what was happening with Sweden. The same can be said for Hun. Rum/Bul and Yugo made things interesting in the Balkans and Greece was but a few months away from being Axis...one way or the other. We were not going to let Greece fall into the Soviet camp.


----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Turner
To: Matthew Tyler ; Pat ; Matt Frederiksen ; Tiron Andric ; Jose Augusto ; Jim Butler ; Adam Davis ; Pierre Gendarme ; Erik Johansson ; Chris Long ; John Madison ; Javier Maqua ; Daniel Michelson ; Don Miller ; Pedja ; Casmir Schmidt ; Jeff Wang
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: I'm afraid our little game has come to an end

Ben was neutral. Spain wants peace!

I made my position completely clear to you- it was Spain's historical position. Spain was not prepared to place herself in opposition to Britain. Too dangerous. Since you were busily winning the Mediterranean war absent Spanish help, I don't see how this is a problem. Essentially the problem is that Matt doesn't seem to understand the concept of neutrality. All states must join him or be invaded.

Matthew Tyler <mtyler@stanford.edu> wrote:
At some point I had a revelation and came to understand that the key to Axis victory was to get Britain out of the war, by any means necessary. Hence the "regime change" in GS1 and the focus on the Med in GS2. The way to get the UK out of the war in GS2 was to conquer the Med and use Egypt and Iraq as bargaining chips. The key to all this was Gibraltar. It seemed quite obvious to me that Ben was pro-Allied and was only giving the Axis minor "concessions" (mainly intel, much of which I suspect was irrelevant or inaccurate). I became convinced that Ben would never assist the Axis in any meaningful way and would probably join the Allies at some point down the road. Pat and I therefore decided to invade, and Pierre was more or less dragged into it (if he didn't send German troops to help, Italy and I would attack anyway and get mired in a bloody trench battle in the mountains, rather than fight the Communists). We rehearsed the invasion several times but could never ge! t a consistent outcome. Recently, I think we more or less decided to abandon the invasion plan and just seek a settlement with the UK based on the threat our forces posed to Egypt etc. rather than physical control of these areas. It would have basically been a status quo peace.

- Matt
----- Original Message -----
From: Pat
To: Ben Turner ; Matt Frederiksen ; Tiron Andric ; Jose Augusto ; Jim Butler ; Adam Davis ; Pierre Gendarme ; Erik Johansson ; Chris Long ; John Madison ; Javier Maqua ; Daniel Michelson ; Don Miller ; Pedja ; Casmir Schmidt ; Matt Tyler ; Jeff Wang
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: I'm afraid our little game has come to an end

The invasion of Spain was to begin within two months, IIRC and German forces were part of this invasion. I guess Pierre's hope was to prevent this invasion from ever occurring for he alone trusted Spain and still thought he could get you to join the Axis, hence his reasoning behind his leaking our plans. I'm not sure if this "leak-plan" would of worked or not in preventing us from going forward. A flat out refusal by Germany to participate would have dissolved the Axis and forced France and Italy to sue for peace thus ending the Spain plans and leaving Germany all alone. Pierre would of gotten his wish but at what cost? Knowing this, and we would of given him this ultimatum, Germany may of decided to go ahead and support the invasion knowing that he himself may have doomed it. Looking at it now, Pierre created a no-win situation by his actions.

Our ultimate goal was always Russia and how best Italy and France can aid Germany. Matt T and I felt to accomplish this max aid, we had to either control the entire Med, or knock the UK out of the war.

Regarding the ship intel; I think I only got it from you once, and at the time I still held a slight hope that you would join us. After the naval round that month, I was able to figure out that the intel you provided was no where near what we faced so from that point forward I knew 100% that Spain could not be trusted. I tried and tried to convince Germany of this but his perceived distrust of France blinded him to any other reasoning.

You and Don missed an opportunity to sow great discord within the Axis. Pierre solely relied on you for intel on France and I shutter to think would could of happened had he been lead to believe that France was really on the Allied side.


----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Turner
To: Pat ; Matt Frederiksen ; Tiron Andric ; Jose Augusto ; Jim Butler ; Adam Davis ; Pierre Gendarme ; Erik Johansson ; Chris Long ; John Madison ; Javier Maqua ; Daniel Michelson ; Don Miller ; Pedja ; Casmir Schmidt ; Matt Tyler ; Jeff Wang
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: I'm afraid our little game has come to an end

Yeah, it's time for the foriegn office papers to come out.

The first thing Spain did when the war began was to ask Germany if she was interested in Atlantic ports. No reply. OK.... so we started asking around for who wanted to donate to Spain's defence. Most generous was France who provided some 150 (!!!) R-35s for the cause. Ultimately Spain was to acquire dozens more tanks, hundreds of trucks, large amounts of heavy artillery, a variety of anti-tank guns and a few aircraft from foriegn arms merchants. The British were the most generous, always willing to offer Spain what she wanted in exchange for moderate concessions, including the right to use Spanish airspace and the formation of the Mediterranean alliance. This last, it is believed, prevented an imminent Italian invasion of Yugoslavia. I guess we'd better ask Sohrab if I'm right on this one.

Of course, all these dealings could not be completely obscured from the Axis, and the hostility of some powers- France in particular- became severe. First, Italy asked Spain to dissolve the Mediterranean Alliance. Since this alliance was already crumbling due to Soviet inroads into the Balkans, Spain was happy to carry out an action she had been planning anyway. In exchange, Spain was allowed to occupy French Morocco, ostensibly to prevent a civil war there. Britain was made to believe that the French metropolitan army had been planning an imminent invasion. Further, Spain was asked by Italy to repair relations by feeding information to them on British fleet movements. This request was passed on to the British who provided suitably convincing false information for Italian ears.

France could not be dissuaded though and ultimately it took the Fuhrer's deep-seated trust in Spain to prevent the Axis invading that country. A bit of a disappointment really as I had been really looking forward to trying out the army I'd been nurturing so carefully for six months.

I'm confident that Spain could have continued to play both sides, having each trust El Caudillo just enough to let him remain independent and neutral.
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Ben Turner
 
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